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Re: So who is copying who?

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:48 pm
by yc1437

Re: So who is copying who?

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:54 pm
by fauzee
copying habbit it happen long time proton copy mitsubishi design..McLaren copy Ferrari Technology..and every company in the world are copying each other to make their product more reliable and dynamic.this what we call Healty Competition..But if MXM :finga: copying the whole MFM :champ: maps...this very shameful and so MFM have their own class...High standard...and more important..thousand newbie will join and built together..generation to generation..

Re: Malsingmaps copying MFM data: Evidence and discussions

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:15 am
by antyong (retired)
We don't want to distract ourselves too much on this issue. So please let me post some final evidence and rebuttal. After that, we move on.

MSM will live on.

I remember the day I bought my GPS V and excitedly acquired satellite lock. Excitement quickly turned to despair when all i could see was a bunch of lines and a rail track (all of which are not aligned to anything real on the ground. At all). Basket! Hence began the mother of all quests ..

In the memory of our forefounding fathers (we're still alive - both Allan and I), so for so long as the raison d'etre exists for the creating of this community in the first place - which was to fill the mapset void left by Garmin - MSM will go on. Maybe one day the official Garmin map will takeover. Who knows? Until then, the community will drive on - like all other similar communities around the globe.

Mappers and contributors come and go and for now - we have some who have decided to leave us for greener pastures. We bid adieu to one of the key stalwarts of MSM as he pursues his own dreams (together with his tag team of mappers and contributors) and i wish them all the best.

But the mapsets that was helped built by this massive community remain and will remain here. There is no issue of anyone taking away and depriving the community of what has been created by the community through all these years. The mapsets would not be what they are today without the community's input and they can't be taken away.

And the compilers that we have bought and upgraded over the years (including Stan's latest $$ upgrade scheme) will continue to compile MSM maps in the future. This compiler belongs to the MSM community - which was financed by a commercial deal in the early years. This was the compiler which gave MSM the steroid boost in the arm that enabled it to leap by high in the sky overnight.

We have been fortunate enough till now to have an understanding webhost who has been bankrolling our server and bandwith requirements. We suck bandwith like the best of the commercial sites. When that day ends, we will need sponsors and funds. I think the MSM community as a whole has been mature enough to accept that in the absence of generous donors - that some commercialisation is inevitable. That when MSM grows big enough that some costs will inevitably be incurred that goes beyond the realm of charity work.

But what is of cardinal importance to the entire MSM community is that - the price to access these maps do not hit their pockets. Whatever we need to do to keep the community alive - we do - but the bottomline is that the MAPS REMAIN FREE. And that is the basis of how MSM has stood and existed over the years and it ought to remain so.

At the moment, we are very close to dispensing with the "2 Submission for Unlock Key". The maps would remain locked but gaining unlock keys will no longer be a hassle that it once was - this time it would be a very simple and quick affair.

Also the days of confusing map combining and the technical dexterity required to do so may be over. There are lot of lost and confused users out there so we may revert to the old ways by tweaking the installer and allowing maps to be selected and pumped via Mapsource. We may need Antyong to help change the FID on his end. Once we dispense with unlock key conditions, we can pave the way for this. Wait for the announcement.

That's about it for now folks.
The above was posted by Adil at the Contributor's forum of MSM. From his posting and my subsequent phone conversation with him, we expected that he will use our map data without consent.

Plenty is happening on the ground and i think it will take a while before the dust settles.

Personally I believe that whoever leaves the community, the community has a right to continue the development of the map that the community helped build. It is the only conscionable thing to do. But some feel it is their right to take it away. I guess we can argue this point till the cows come home.

It is likely that we will rebuild Ant's maps and look towards a release closer to the end of the year.

I wont have any hard feelings if you join the new playground. The remaining mappers have unanimously agreed to continue supporting MSM - we will make some minor changes here on the policies relating to unlock codes and the gimped installer. Of course the other big change is that we will release fresh maps to replace Ant's maps. That is the plan anyhow.

If proceeded with - then Perak will be redrawn as well. If you feel that you'd want to share your mp on Perak - then that will assist in the redraw. If you wish to NOT share, that is fine too.

Anyways .. this hobby mapping business does not mix well with backroom politics .. so life goes on lah.

Dunnolah. It seems like a mountain out of a molehill. I just made a suggestion to partially distribute some of the money back to the mappers. It wont make them rich and its more of a token sum. And it is after all a PROPOSAL only. I think if Ant had an issue with that - then he has every right to voice it out. Instead he opted to make a unilateral decision to split without talking to anyone of us.

Look around laa .. every crook is making money left right and centre from MSM. And when someones comes to want to legitimately use the map - we get frighthened? And then we complain Mr X Y and Z is making pocket money? I even know one of the VC is hacking our maps to go with Nuvi's. We can firefight this all day long and waste our time or we can move forward and take control of our future and look at the larger picture.

The MSM community at large dont care how the maps are produced and how everything is funded or even if mappers and VCs get pocket money. They dont care about the backroom politics - they dont care who the mappers are even.

His other problem was that he is mad with Jerome. Jerome as we all know is exploiting his SG map and making some pocket money on the side. I have no issues with it - and the rest of the mappers have no bones about it either. But i think Ant finds it unacceptable. But he did mention that he was unhappy with the other mappers as well but i wont dwell on that lah. Anyways he is luring quite a number of key players of MSM to the other side and i wont stop anybody.

On MSM side, life will go on as usual. For now I am back in the mapping fold and will be part of the remap project.

I wont air all this backroom politics - the VC knows what is happening and that is enough la. As for the rest of the users - they dont care about the politics. They just care abt the maps. And free maps is what is what MSM will continue to do lah.
But at that time, OngCC was not on board yet. So must act gentleman....

You guys should have a better idea if such words were repeated recently or the whole argument had changed :-'

To be continued...

Re: Malsingmaps copying MFM data: Evidence and discussions

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:21 am
by antyong (retired)
What was the original agreement between Adil and mappers? None. He merely invited us to join the forum and we shared our maps. Later, the our maps were consolidated to become a Mal/SG map. During the end of 2006, there was a heated argument on map ownership that forced create a poll.

The old MSM forum had just been C4'ed. So I could not provide the links. However, we are well prepared. We took screenshots. My old buddy jmleng was so distrustful of these guys that I think he took screenshots of all the pages and arguments. More needed if necessary :mrgreen:


81% voted to reaffirm the mappers' right to their maps. This was our common understanding until the recent daylight robbery. Take note of the word "Status Quo". That had been our understand all along since the beginning on MSM.

Re: Malsingmaps copying MFM data: Evidence and discussions

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:30 am
by antyong (retired)
However by the time the vote ended, we had already formed was a private forum for valued contributors of Malsingmaps. It was made private to keep us out of Noah and Babie (familiar names?). The understanding is is the mapper community while Malsingmaps is the user community. provided maps to Malsingmaps on a monthly basis. This arrangement ended only when I announced my retirement.

Traces of are still around in MSM v2.30b.


So it is bull crap to claim that our maps were done under Malsingmaps.

Btw, the forum still Oldies can still log in for some reminiscence. I had opened up several sub-forums to the public. By reading them you should understand the skipped release version of v2.20, v2.23, etc is due to weekly internal releases at

Re: Malsingmaps copying MFM data: Evidence and discussions

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:33 am
by antyong (retired)
If you need a neutral party to believe, it will be Mapking. I signed the cooperation and non-disclosure agreement on behalf of to obtained the Mapking compiler. That's the compiler used to create the recent Mapking releases at MSM. I had foolishly destroyed my copy of the agreement when I left MSM in disgust. But Mapking has a copy. All I need to do is call up Mr Mok of Mapking. In the agreement, you will see it stated clearly the relationship between and

Re: Malsingmaps copying MFM data: Evidence and discussions

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:35 am
by antyong (retired)
That's it. End of my story. Lega........

Many of the veterans here know the story. These evidence is intended for future newbies, exactly the group that MSM is trying to hoodwink.


Re: So who is copying who?

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:15 am
by silverbeauty
SOSweet wrote:It seems that the Garmin-MSM maps are only 'FREE update at anytime up to one year after the date of your unit's first satellite acquisition." '. So, who is the benefactor and who will be the sucker ? :frus:
The claim of "no monetary involve" by someone are unsincere and doubtful. :fire: :frus:

Bro SOSweet, went to the show today and this is what the people at the "Garmin" booth told me on the statement that you mentioned above :

The Garmin NT map is entitled to "one" free update per year from the date of your unit's first satellite acquisition after which there is a charge for future updates.

The Garmin-MSM map is entitled to free update for life of unit via Garmin webupdater.

The picture assist works only with the Garmin NT map and for now only for Singapore. For this feature to be available for Malaysia, should be available in next quarter

Overall the show still have the usual GPS players in the market ie... Garmin, Marbella, Shinko, TiBo etc.... Sellers knowledge is still a "lacking" .... :thumbsdown: The 255W features is nothing to shout about to entice me to change from my 660 :-'