Kenwood KNA-G520 Deadreckoning

[mapmad]

Looking to buy Kenwood KNA-G520. Can anyone advise is this model (still) availiable in Singapore ?
I understand this is a rather old model but it seems this is one of the few models that has deadreckoning (vehicle speed pulse input).
Seems like the later and latest Kenwood models no longer have deadreckoning anymore.
Can anyone comment on the actual performance of the KNA-G520, including if one can use Malfree maps in the KNA-G520, and the performanace of the other Kenwood GPS without deadreckoning.
Anyone knows of any other car GPS with deadreckoning using Malfree maps ?
Car GPS without deadreckoning is not worth the trouble ??
All comments and advise will be appreciated.

[mechanic_guna]

Dear Sir,
1. Car GPS without deadreckoning is not worth the trouble ??

Please read link below which has a design article about pros and cons of dead reckoning. It might be interesting for you.
http://www.eetimes.com/design/automotiv ... geNumber=0

2. Anyone knows of any other car GPS with deadreckoning using Malfree maps ?

The Garmin Street pilot series had dead reckoning features but unfortunately it is discontinued. Not sure if any of the Nuvi models have dead reckoning or not. Dead reckoning is quite difficult to achieve because you need to track the vehicle's speed very accurately and you also have to track its heading very accurately with an external gyro for it work with any reasonable accuracy.
See if you can find something here that might be useful.
http://www.u-blox.com/en/dead-reckoning.html. This company only manufactures chips and modules for OEM's.

I hope this helps a little bit.....

[silverbeauty]

Garmin Nuvis has the ability to navigate in tunnels ... Read this link : viewtopic.php?p=132015#p132015

[mechanic_guna]

Agreed but this is not true dead reckoning. You have to maintain a constant speed inside the tunnel for it to work. If you change your speed while inside the tunnel it will not work. The GPS will correct itself as soon as you come out of the tunnel and acquire satellite signals. For true dead-reckoning the heading of the vehicle is also required.

[mapmad]

Dear Sir,
......... http://www.u-blox.com/en/dead-reckoning.html. This company only manufactures chips and modules for OEM's.

I hope this helps a little bit.....

Thanks Bro.
As far as I know, the kna-G520 comes with gyro etc built in. If the car speed pulse is properly calibrated including factoring in whether the car tyre size is still the factory size, installed correctly (flat and with gyro pointing the correct direction with reference to the car) it should provide reasonably good deadreckoning.
I am very interested to try out but can't find a good source to buy. Found some used sets for sale on e-bay but dare not try as can't verify the actual condition of the sets.
BTW, any idea where can I get a "box" to convert the serial Nmea statements from u-blox to BT signal so that I can use the U-blox as an external in car BT GPSr with deadreckoning for any of the smartphones (using MFM maps) ? This should work ?
Will get a u-blox system to try if I can get the right box to transform it into a BT GPSr.
Hope many more sifu out there are also interested to join in the "experiment".

[mechanic_guna]

Dear Sir,
You are correct. I also think that the KNA-G520 comes with a built in gyro. I was just now looking at the installation manual. It does not give clear instructions on how to interface it to the speed output from the vehicle. What kind of car are you driving? Do you have access to your vehicle's speed output(aka 'wheel tick pulses')?
I believe that this unit is still sold in Europe. You can probably get it from Kenwood Europe but please study the installation manual before buying it. The manual can be downloaded from the internet here:
http://images.kenwood.eu/files/images/p ... al_ENG.pdf
As for the maps, I think it will run perfectly on MFM.

Now the U-blox is a different story. I also had a look at the datasheet of the U-blox module.
1. To build this up into a complete GPS unit we need:
(a). a supported turn rate gyro = EPSON XV-8000CB (manufactured by epsontoyocom) - I got no clue where to get this unit.
(b). Have access to the vehicle's un-steered wheel tick pulses. I have a proton persona but I don't have any clue how to get this data from the ECU unit. Maybe some one from proton design can help?
(c). One should be a staunch electronics hobbyist and have a good knowledge of PC programming.

I believe that if we can put all the electronics together on a PCB and get it working, we should be able to use Garmin Mobile XT software to read the NMEA sentences and provide navigation by dead reckoning.
If there are more people interested in this topic, it is a good idea to pursue this further. It is definitively worth it and satisfying if we can get it working and publish a working design. Let us take it further....

[silverbeauty]

Dear Sir,
You are correct. I also think that the KNA-G520 comes with a built in gyro. I was just now looking at the installation manual. It does not give clear instructions on how to interface it to the speed output from the vehicle. What kind of car are you driving? Do you have access to your vehicle's speed output(aka 'wheel tick pulses')?
I believe that this unit is still sold in Europe. You can probably get it from Kenwood Europe but please study the installation manual before buying it. The manual can be downloaded from the internet here:
http://images.kenwood.eu/files/images/p ... al_ENG.pdf
As for the maps, I think it will run perfectly on MFM.

Now the U-blox is a different story. I also had a look at the datasheet of the U-blox module.
1. To build this up into a complete GPS unit we need:
(a). a supported turn rate gyro = EPSON XV-8000CB (manufactured by epsontoyocom) - I got no clue where to get this unit.
(b). Have access to the vehicle's un-steered wheel tick pulses. I have a proton persona but I don't have any clue how to get this data from the ECU unit. Maybe some one from proton design can help?
(c). One should be a staunch electronics hobbyist and have a good knowledge of PC programming.

I believe that if we can put all the electronics together on a PCB and get it working, we should be able to use Garmin Mobile XT software to read the NMEA sentences and provide navigation by dead reckoning.
If there are more people interested in this topic, it is a good idea to pursue this further. It is definitively worth it and satisfying if we can get it working and publish a working design. Let us take it further....

The Kenwood needs a feedback of vehicle speed via pulses ( Square or Sine Wave ). The pink wire should be tied to this signal
Thus you will need to find a source for vehicle speed signal.

If you have access to a vehicle service manual, you can trace for the VSS wire ie... tachometer or cruise control feedback signal ( if vehicle has cruise control )

If you can not get a clean signal from the VSS wire or the vehicle does not have one, your next choice is to add a after market signal generator for the vehicle. The way is to accmplish this is via a Hall Switch+magnet combo. The Hall Switch should be configured to have its peak to peak level proportional to the signal needed by the Kenwood whole the magnet is cable tied to the drive shaft. If you do not know what a hall switch is, read this link http://www.instronics.com/sensoronix_ha ... ensor.html or this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

This signal feedback is akin to installing an after-market cruise control onto a car that does not come with one.
Like the Kenwood, the cruise control needs to have pulses feedback proportional to speed of car.

[mapmad]

You are correct. I also think that the KNA-G520 comes with a built in gyro....
I believe that this unit is still sold in Europe.

Tried contacting some of the Kenwood dealers, no reply. It's getting too hard to buy this old model. Giving out..

Now the U-blox is a different story.....

I believe that if we can put all the electronics together on a PCB and get it working, we should be able to use Garmin Mobile XT software to read the NMEA sentences and provide navigation by dead reckoning.
If there are more people interested in this topic, it is a good idea to pursue this further. It is definitively worth it and satisfying if we can get it working and publish a working design. Let us take it further....

U-blox has this kit (USB) that will do the job;
http://www.u-blox.com/de/evaluation-too ... vk-6r.html
U-blox Window CE driver for the kit;
http://www.u-blox.com/de/drivers-a-midd ... ivers.html
Also found this serial to BT adaptor;
http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm

Anyone keen to help me to put these together ?

[mapmad]

If you can not get a clean signal from the VSS wire or the vehicle does not have one, your next choice is to add a after market signal generator for the vehicle. The way is to accmplish this is via a Hall Switch+magnet combo. The Hall Switch should be configured to have its peak to peak level proportional to the signal needed by the Kenwood whole the magnet is cable tied to the drive shaft. If you do not know what a hall switch is, read this link http://www.instronics.com/sensoronix_ha ... ensor.html or this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

This signal feedback is akin to installing an after-market cruise control onto a car that does not come with one.
Like the Kenwood, the cruise control needs to have pulses feedback proportional to speed of car.

Quite right, most, if not all, cars now have the speed pulse. Finding it is another matter...
Thinking of getting the system assembled first, will find the pulse later..

[mechanic_guna]

You are correct. I also think that the KNA-G520 comes with a built in gyro....
I believe that this unit is still sold in Europe.

Tried contacting some of the Kenwood dealers, no reply. It's getting too hard to buy this old model. Giving out..

Now the U-blox is a different story.....


U-blox has this kit (USB) that will do the job;
http://www.u-blox.com/de/evaluation-too ... vk-6r.html
U-blox Window CE driver for the kit;
http://www.u-blox.com/de/drivers-a-midd ... ivers.html
Also found this serial to BT adaptor;
http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm

Anyone keen to help me to put these together ?

Dear Sir,
The kit from U-blox as you have mentioned above is good to go. If you have a phone with windows mobile OS, it will surely work because all the drivers they have provided is for windows. Just buy the kit and give it a go. It looks like everything is built in. The only question now is to find the correct wheel tick pulses from your car. Before you begin, I suggest that you buy your car's service manual and see whether you can figure out where the wheel tick pulses can be obtained.